Interview Transcript

Interview Transcript- Daniel Sauvé

Introduction: I interviewed Daniel Sauvé, an employment specialist at the African Community Center.  The purpose of the interview was to gain understanding about the procedures used to help refugees find employment in the United States.  I also wanted to learn about the ACC employees’ own experiences working with refugees and their views on the refugee experience especially as it relates to employment.

What is the procedure for employing a refugee?

            It very much depends on the individual.  Refugees come with all different types of skills, different levels of English, different backgrounds as far as education and work. So if folks don’t speak much English or if there is room to improve they sign up for English classes, they’ll go to job training classes— we have some for lower level English speakers and higher-level English speakers— and then once they get their documentation (usually their employment card, social security card, and ID) then we can begin applying for jobs for them. Then we just work with them, you know, we tell them to work their networks and then we will use our contacts until we can find an appropriate position for them and then we provide support for them beyond that process as well.

Do you guys have a system for allowing refugees to assimilate to American culture?

            So part of the trainings are working on American work culture and what timeliness means because in some cultures timeliness is a little less strict. Also the idea of working in a company, because many refugees were working in their countries in the informal sector.  Just what it means to go to work at a certain time and have a manager, etc. So that’s the kind of acculturation we’re dealing with, it is mostly employment related.

What are the struggles? What is the easiest portion of job placement?

            The hardest part is always motivation.  If somebody is not motivated to work there is nothing we can do to make him or her take a job. There are ways that we work with people to kind of help them see their different options as far as if they are not working then they will be relying on public benefits which only lasts a short period of time and then you could be on the streets or waiting for their friends to help them. We try to present the options to help motivate people. So that is kind of the way we try to get around the motivation. So that is definitely the hardest part. 

            Language is a difficulty but if people have a good attitude and are willing to work hard, we can get people who don’t speak much English a job. So really it’s the attitude and the motivation that is the most difficult part.  We even have people who speak perfect English, but they don’t want to take a job that they see is beneath them.  When you’re first new in the country its hard to get people to take a job that they’ll need just to get started here, but they feel that it is beneath them.

            The easiest part is when somebody comes in and they have a great attitude and they are willing to take whatever job and they understand the system of taking an entry-level job and then working your way up.  People who understand that concept are going to succeed a lot quicker.

Do you receive external support from outside agencies?

            We have other organizations that we work with for training. Emily Griffith does the ESL training and they do a training called WISC, which is a Work Intensive Skills Class, which is for lower English, and Pathways to Employment, which is a higher-level English class. The Spring Institute does classes as well. One is for lower level English and then the other one is specifically for women to help them get some job skills.  Those are the two major outside organizations we are working with as far as training goes.  Lutheran Family Services has training in housekeeping which we also refer people to. Also our employment partners that we work with who help us with placement.   We also work with an organization called Colorado Welcome Back they help people get back into the medical field.

What is your picture of a successful refugee?

The way I look at it is getting people to choose the life that they want to live.  At the beginning, people are going to have to take whatever job they can get.  But if we can give them the skills so that they can do well in their job in order to upgrade and eventually move into the field that they want to be in and sort of guide them towards that and guide them towards resources for education and things like that.  Whenever we can help somebody either get back into the field they were before or into the field they really want to be in, that’s success for me.  We don’t really measure success in terms of how much money somebody is making but rather how fulfilled somebody is or if they are able to support their family.  For some people that’s all it is about, as long as they can support their family and maybe send some money back home.

Have you noticed a culture shock with refugees who come in?

It depends on where they’re coming from, and some people more than others and some folks whose experiences have been from more of a rural environment that don’t have as much exposure to a metropolitan lifestyle. But then you have other people coming from Iraq or Baghdad who are very well educated and very cosmopolitan. They also have different expectations and ideas about what they are going to find here.  So everyone has his or her own culture shock.  It’s either that things are very different or that things are less than they expected. People have ideas about America that they’ve seen on TV so they have a whole different set of expectations.  So part of our job is to realign people’s expectations and let them know what they are going to find here.

How do you feel about your personal work at the ACC?

            It varies from day to day. There are days when I just feel so stressed out and it’s difficult because you feel people are relying on you for their livelihood and it’s a very difficult pressure to carry. But then when you are able to help someone succeed and people are very appreciative and will come back in and thank you.  Maybe I’ve forgotten about what we did to help them, but it’s a very personal thing.  We are dealing with hundreds of people but they only have one employment specialist.  I feel that overall it’s very fulfilling and I definitely feel like we are able to improve people’s lives in tangible ways but sometimes you get worn down from day to day just doing the work.

What is your favorite refugee story?

            One guy that I worked with recently was a surgeon in his country. For a lot of people in the medical profession, they have a hard time getting back into their field. So when he came he spoke good English and had a great attitude and we almost put him into a job in window manufacturing.  He would make decent money and would probably be able to support himself, but it was so out of line with what he wanted to do.  So we thought let’s hold back on that and refer him to the Welcome Back program who hooked him up with some trainings to get him started in the health care field. So it was just an entry-level job but at least he was working in the hospital environment.  He has now moved his way up and now he’s an assistant to a surgeon, so he’s still not able to practice at the same level he was, but he’s getting back to that point. So for me, that’s somebody who comes back in and I get to see every now and then and he seems to be doing well.

Do certain jobs have a refugee-retentive atmosphere?

It really depends on the company more so than the job title.  There are certain companies we work with that are really good about treating our people as people and treating them with dignity and letting them know that no matter what position they are in their role is important.  We have employers that pay close to the minimum wage, but employers stay there because the workers are treated very well.  We have jobs that pay a couple dollars more an hour and people don’t want to work there because it is just a bad environment for people to work in and they don’t feel valued.  There are other places like the meat packing plants that treat people really poorly but they pay such an outstanding wage for people who don’t even speak English, you know they can start out at 14 dollars an hour, so people are willing to put up with being in an unsafe environment where they are not treated particularly well.  So we definitely see organization to organization and hear back from people, which employers they like to work for.  And they’ll talk to each other, you know, they’ll let the community know “Oh you’re working at that place and they treat you like that” well I took them over here because they do this for us. So people communicate with each other and decide if they hear of a better opportunity for themselves they are going to pursue it. And they definitely let us know their feedback on where they’re working.

How do you match refugee expectations with what is actually feasible?

            The first thing we do is an orientation letting people know how things work here. I do try to tell people that you’re probably going to start out in a job that’s not your forever job, you’re not always going to be in this position, but in order to start, you just need something on your resume.  So I definitely try to temper people’s expectations that your first job is not going to be a great job, but its going to be something that will pay your bills and something to get on your resume, and then you’re going to work up from there. For some people it just takes time and they don’t believe you. They think, “no I’m just going to get right into the job I was working before” and maybe they don’t have English skills or maybe they don’t have the cultural competency so that they’re able to do that same job at the same level they were able to do it before.  So for some people, it just takes time, some people refuse all of the entry-level jobs for a year until they just say, “okay I need to just take anything” and then they’re willing to lower their expectations.  You’re working with individuals who have their own will and their own ideas about what life they want to live so I think we just try to give people a real picture and then just work with them over time as far as setting their goals and expectations.  And then letting them know, if they say, “this is where I want to be”, giving them a realistic set of steps to take to get there. Rather than having them think they’re going to move right to that job.

How is it trying to find jobs in the Denver Community?

            It’s not.  Right now we have jobs that we aren’t able to fill just because we have a lot of jobs open.  It’s seasonal— so in the winter there are a lot fewer people hiring and in the spring and into the summer there are a lot more people hiring so it fluctuates.  And also in the last few years with the downturn in the economy, it’s kind of been difficult all around. But now we are seeing a lot of jobs so we can usually find jobs for anyone who is willing to work.  Right now we are struggling with a lot of our folks who have almost no English, which makes it difficult, but we have been able to move a lot of people, even without English, into jobs.  So right now it’s a pretty good job market. A lot of our people are working in hotels and restaurants.  Usually places where they don’t have as much communication with customers or guests.  Those are jobs that our folks can do that have a lot of turnover generally and our folks will usually stay in those jobs longer than an American.  So if they are going to hire people they usually seek out our folks because they know they are going to find people who are going to work hard and they are going to stick around usually longer than American employees.

What is your favorite thing to do in Denver?

The great thing about our community is that it has all types of great food so I like to enjoy all the different types of food from all of the different countries that are in our community.

Reflection

I felt that the interview with Daniel went very well.  He was more than happy to answer all of my questions and was very thorough with his answers.  It was especially helpful because he allowed me to interview him on a last-minute notice.  I was originally supposed to interview Hussein but he was really sick and didn’t want to get me sick as well. 

Even though I have been volunteering regularly in the ACC this quarter, I still learned so many things about the ACC and refugees in general through the interview with Daniel. I felt that it was very helpful research method.  Listening to a first-hand account is a lot more powerful and interesting than simply reading an article about refugee employment.